
Kateryna Pylypchuk had a dialogue with Martin Duplantier, – french architect and urban designer, president of AMO & AMO FOUNDATION, championing heritage, culture, and sustainability in building practices in France and Ukraine 🇫🇷🇺🇦, in particular in rebuilding projects and consulting the city planning divisions and agencies.
Kateryna Pylypchuk: Martin, thank you for your participation in our blog series “Voice of innovation: shaping the future of construction”. And my first question will be what does the actual “voice of innovation” mean to you?
Martin Duplantier: “The voice of innovation is probably not the production of innovation, but rather the expression of a concept, of a need, of a potential solution. And it can be from different sources, from different kinds of stakeholders. When we’re talking about voices of innovation, for example, in our construction sector, then, you know, we’re talking about architects, we’re talking about designers, we’re talking about maybe developers as well that have ideas in mind. Necessarily in the production, but that has this vision of innovation.”

The project “Biscarrosse”
Kateryna Pylypchuk: And what about the types of these innovations like low-tech and high-tech, as we practically see – those two are not greatly co-living and which one of them would you prioritize?
Martin Duplantier: ” I know that usually investors and even public figures, love digital high-tech solutions that are going to save the world and the problems of the world, etc. Actually, the low-tech solutions are may be less attractive at first sight, but they are there to last, and they are passive, so they’re more resilient as well when you have a power shortage or whatever, you know, it’s still there and it still works. Of course, they are complementary and it’s not one or the other, but it’s probably one and the other. And I see this as an ecosystem to build. Rather than sorting low-tech and high-tech, but rather as a whole, because buildings or cities are very complex and we need both kinds of solutions.”

The project “Bucha cultural center”
Kateryna Pylypchuk: What are the core principles guiding your sustainable development strategies for Ukrainian restoration?
Martin Duplantier: “Well, I very rapidly saw the potential of Ukraine, which is a country of the size of France, a bit more with the same history with agriculture, with an extremely well-educated population, and with the need for reconstruction as a very good example of how to build the city of the 21st century taking into account the history and the context of Ukraine, and also the resources, the natural resources that they have. All of our projects are done with this in mind, with the ambition to give jobs, to create local jobs, to activate local resources, to work with sustainability in mind and to be able to create, let’s say, the avant-garde the innovation for the European cities.”

The project “Bucha cultural center”
Kateryna Pylypchuk: What groundbreaking construction approaches are being considered?
Martin Duplantier: “Yes, we’re looking at construction techniques that are with stone, with straw, with timber structure as well. But the main question that we are having now is, one, about the regulations, so how to step up and bring the legal framework to the level of our ambitions, of our collective ambitions. And second, the skilled workers and the tools for reconstruction in terms of human resources and in terms of as well as, let’s say mechanical resources. This is a very accurate and actual topic because we are working with different development agencies from different countries even the German development agency as well the UNESCO to bring programs to train these workers with these sustainable techniques that are ancient but that we bring back. We can mechanize, optimize them and the productivity can be much higher, but at least we need people to know what they are doing with this kind of natural resources.”
Kateryna Pylypchuk: How does France’s approach to natural resources in construction compare to what you face in Ukraine?
Martin Duplantier: “Yes, well the thing is that in France we have let’s say two main vectors, one vector is the heritage, taking care of our heritage. So a lot of money has been over the years, the decades, invested in taking care of our heritage and so the skills that need to be still accurate to take care of this heritage. So, let’s say we have the basis of these guys knowing what they do, the craftsmanship that is needed to reproduce or redo, rebuild, or renovate all of these buildings from Paris to Marseille, etc. On the other hand, we had a huge lobby of concrete and very carbon, let’s say, loaded materials. With Lafarge, with big Saint-Gobain, the huge companies pushing the regulations so that actually whenever you want to do a project or building, you need to use their products. And that has been a huge obstacle to the actualization of these ancient techniques and these sustainable techniques to bring them back on board. So that’s why guys like me, are helping the smaller companies with these new technologies or ancient technologies that they want to bring back to new projects, we help them to go through the process of accreditation, labeling, etc. And there is, in the French framework, there’s a big inertia. So when you’re saying that we are very proactive, we need to be proactive because the lobbies, on the other hand, are very active as well. And that’s why it’s mainly about municipal buildings. They have the money or the political will to impose sustainable techniques for the construction of a school, a gym, a library, and so on. What we wish to improve and what we want to improve is the ability of these sustainable techniques to go onto the private market, because the massive market is private. And we’re trying as hard as we can. It’s also my role as president of the Architectural Association, which is not only about architects, it’s about architects, developers, municipalities engineering firms, etc. So we’re all about architecture and the quality of architecture. We try to push at the minister level so that the legislation is moving forward. Natural resources and materials can only be implemented on a large spectrum and with reasonable price only if it’s automated at some point if we have some prefab parts in it. “

The project “Ivankiv Maria Primochenko Museum”
Kateryna Pylypchuk: How important is educating students and the public about sustainability?
Martin Duplantier: “Yes, in France it’s from kindergarten, there is education about waste management, sustainability and how to take care of plants and trees. There are several programs and it’s supported by the European Union on these topics. And then for higher education, in architecture schools, it’s very present, but we as an architecture association, we’re trying to reach it as well. The schools for real estate developers, because a project is always a collective artwork, right? You need everyone to talk the same language, to be able to understand each other, and to have common goals. And of course, I mean, there’s a budget, there are constraints, but at least if we have the same will, if what we’re trying to reach goes in the same direction, then it’s much easier. And so we try to push all the engineering and real estate, higher education institutions, to also go in this direction and educate them the same way that architecture schools are being also revisited.”

The project “Ivankiv Maria Primochenko Museum”
Kateryna Pylypchuk: Why might architects hesitate to use new or traditional materials, and what advice would you give them?
Martin Duplantier: “I don’t know if they’re afraid, or is it more comfortable to use, let’s say, the day-to-day routine without putting into question everything again. But it’s a matter of curiosity. So I would advise them to be curious. You don’t have to try all new ways and step by step to get some training if they are uncomfortable with it. I think they will be very proud of themselves once they have used it and they have been able to prove that sustainability and construction are compatible. Let’s go for it!”
Kateryna Pylypchuk: Thank you, Martin, for a truly enlightening discussion. Your insights not only inspire but also remind us of the potential for meaningful innovation in our world. I appreciate your openness and look forward to seeing your continued impact, especially in Ukraine. You’re always welcome in Kyiv.
Martin Duplantier: Thank you, Kateryna. It’s crucial we keep pushing forward, especially with the challenges ahead. I value this dialogue and am optimistic about our shared efforts toward sustainable development. Let’s stay in touch and work together towards those goals.